Loud Ideas Podcast https://www.minddoodle.com The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. With our guests, we explore a wide range of topics relating to the digital space to provoke new ideas and fresh thinking for our listeners. Mon, 02 Dec 2019 14:24:56 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3.3 The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. With our guests, we explore a wide range of topics relating to the digital space to provoke new ideas and fresh thinking for our listeners. Loud Ideas clean episodic Loud Ideas tess@minddoodle.com tess@minddoodle.com (Loud Ideas) © 2017~2019 Mind Doodle Ltd The Loud Ideas Podcast by Mind Doodle Loud Ideas Podcast /wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Apple-Thumbnail-Loud-Ideas.png https://www.minddoodle.com TV-G Episode #10: Loud Ideas – HelloWP with Micah & Josh https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-10-loud-ideas-hellowp-micah-josh/ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:42:54 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59603 In episode ten of the Loud Ideas podcast, Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Micah Dailey and Josh Dailey from WPMU DEV about their podcast, HelloWP. Episode 10 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Tess Coughlan-Allen talking to Micah Dailey and Josh Dailey.

Hello, WP! is a first-of-its-kind journalistic podcast series that follows Micah, a new user, on a journey to discover WordPress and its valuable community. Created by Micah Daily and Josh Dailey from WPMU DEV, the show was made with everyone in mind – from podcast lovers and average web-surfing folk, all the way to WordPress newcomers and full-time developers.

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In episode ten of the Loud Ideas podcast, Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Micah Dailey and Josh Dailey from WPMU DEV about their podcast, HelloWP. In episode ten of the Loud Ideas podcast, Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Micah Dailey and Josh Dailey from WPMU DEV about their podcast, HelloWP. Loud Ideas clean 47:45
Episode #9: Loud Ideas – Using the Command Line with Dwayne McDaniel https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-9-loud-ideas-command-line-dwayne-mcdaniel/ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:41:57 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59743 In episode nine of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Dwayne McDaniel, Coach & Founder of Process Digital Consulting about using the command line. Episode 9 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Rich Hill talking to Dwayne McDaniel.

Dwayne is a Process Management Coach & Founder of Process Digital Consulting. The great joy of Dwayne’s day to day life is working with the people building the internet. Developers, architects and all manner of other titles. His goal is to help connecting people with the best information, putting them on the best path to success.

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In episode nine of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Dwayne McDaniel, Coach & Founder of Process Digital Consulting about using the command line. In episode nine of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Dwayne McDaniel, Coach & Founder of Process Digital Consulting about using the command line. Loud Ideas clean
Episode #8: Loud Ideas – UX & Women in WP with Tracy Apps https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-8-loud-ideas-ux-women-in-wp-with-tracy-apps/ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:38:10 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59561 In episode eight of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Tracy Apps about user experience and the Women in WP podcast. Episode 8 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Tess Coughlan-Allen talking to Tracy Apps.

Tracy Apps (@tapps) is a big-picture doer, a developer, a designer, a translator, a user experience (UX) creator… basically a creative problem solver who’s addicted to learning. For Tracy, User Experience is about so much more than “making things pretty,” it means taking all the pieces of the puzzle—the different languages, the nuances of how systems work, and breaking them down into simple chunks of information to be explained, deciphered, and incorporated into an accessible, inclusive, wholistic product for the end-user.

Tracy has over 20 years of web development experience and 18+ years of client work, both through her startup, tracy apps design, LLC and as a contractor/consultant. Her range of clients include Fortune 500 & 1000 companies like Kohl’s, Johnson Controls, and GE Healthcare, to nonprofits, startups, small businesses, and artists.

Since beginning her work in technology in the late 90s, Tracy has grown alongside the internet. She started using WordPress before it was WordPress, and remembers a time before Facebook, mobile phones, and broadband internet… when we had to call the internet. She’s a nationally-renown public speaker and presenter, and most recently co-launched the Women in WP podcast, a bi-monthly podcast about women who help make up the worldwide WordPress community. Tracy is a drummer, bow-tie aficionado, and she could probably deadlift you.

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In episode eight of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Tracy Apps about user experience and the Women in WP podcast. In episode eight of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Tracy Apps about user experience and the Women in WP podcast. Loud Ideas clean 35:23
Episode #7: Loud Ideas – From Passion to Profession with Adam Warner https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-7-loud-passion-profession-adam-warner/ Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:33:20 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59610 In episode seven of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Adam Warner from GoDaddy about side projects and how to turn them from passion to profession. Episode 7 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Rich Hill talking to Adam Warner from GoDaddy.

Adam is a true WordPress software evangelist in spirit and personality who builds communities and connections. He’s the Field Marketing Manager for GoDaddy Pro, bringing his experience and knowledge of the web and online business to the WordPress community. Adam is also passionate about his family, robots, and of course Life, the Universe and Everything.

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In episode seven of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Adam Warner from GoDaddy about side projects and how to turn them from passion to profession. In episode seven of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's CEO Rich Hill talks to Adam Warner from GoDaddy about side projects and how to turn them from passion to profession. Loud Ideas clean
Episode #6: Loud Ideas – Mind Mapping to WordPress with Remkus de Vries https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-6-loud-ideas-mind-mapping-wordpress-remkus-devries/ Mon, 28 Oct 2019 12:04:21 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59755 In episode six of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Remkus de Vries from Yoast about mind mapping into the WordPress community. Episode 6 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Tess Coughlan-Allen talking to Remkus de Vries.

Remkus is from Fryslân, the Netherlands and is Manager Partnerships at Yoast. He’s been active in the WordPress Community since 2006 and co-founded WordCamp Netherlands and WordCamp Europe.

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In episode six of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Remkus de Vries from Yoast about mind mapping into the WordPress community. In episode six of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Remkus de Vries from Yoast about mind mapping into the WordPress community. Loud Ideas clean 27:28
Episode #5: Loud Ideas – Designing For All with Eriol Fox https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-5-loud-ideas-designing-for-all-eriol-fox/ Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:09 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59750 In episode five of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Eriol Fox from Ushahidi about designing for everyone. Episode 5 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Tess Coughlan-Allen talking to Eriol Fox.

Eriol is a product & UX designer who has worked in-house roles for 9+ years. Now working at Ushahidi, a humanitarian, non-profit technology leader, developing open-source, digital tools to help people with better democratic process, human rights issues, natural and human-made disasters.

Eriol is a non-binary, queer person who uses they/them pronouns and an LGBTQIA+ advocate. They are deeply passionate about intersectional inclusion and promoting healthy attitudes towards mental health in the tech sector.

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In episode five of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Eriol Fox from Ushahidi about designing for everyone. In episode five of the Loud Ideas podcast, Mind Doodle's marketing manager Tess Coughlan-Allen talks to Eriol Fox from Ushahidi about designing for everyone. Loud Ideas clean 54:19
Episode #4: Loud Ideas – WordPress Journey with Josepha Haden https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-4-loud-ideas-wordpress-josepha-haden/ Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:57:05 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=59543 In episode four of the Loud Ideas podcast, Josepha Haden from Automattic talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about her journey through WordPress to Executive Director of the WordPress project. Episode 4 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Richard Hill talking to Josepha Haden about her WordPress journey.

Josepha is currently the Executive Director of the WordPress project, helping to coordinate and guide volunteer efforts across the ecosystem. Since 2015 Josepha has worked behind the scenes as the lead of the open source division at Automattic. Her work includes financial planning, sponsorship relations, volunteer training programs, and several diversity initiatives on a global scale. She is well-versed in conflict mediation tactics and has a knack for explaining complex topics clearly and respectfully.

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In episode four of the Loud Ideas podcast, Josepha Haden from Automattic talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about her journey through WordPress to Executive Director of the WordPress project. In episode four of the Loud Ideas podcast, Josepha Haden from Automattic talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about her journey through WordPress to Executive Director of the WordPress project. Loud Ideas clean
Episode #3: Loud Ideas – WordPress Communities & WCEU with Milan Ivanović https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/loud-ideas-wordpress-communities-wceu-with-milan-ivanovic/ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:17:41 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=47032 Episode 3 of the Loud Ideas podcast The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, Tess Coughlan-Allen chats to Milan Ivanović. Milan lives and breathes WordPress: he’s the WordPress.org global translation editor, WordPress Serbia lead and was one of WordCamp Europe's lead organisers. Milan was one of the lecturers of the WordPress Academy in Serbia, giving talks and free WordPress Workshops. WordCamp volunteer, speaker, and organiser. Milan is a member of the Theme Review and Community Get Involved Teams. In his spare time, Milan holds WordPress lectures and collects WordCamp T-shirts. He works as a WordPress Developer at Valet.io and you can look him up online with his username: @lanche86.   Transcript Tess: Welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. This is the podcast where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. This week I’m interviewing Milan Ivanović about WordCamp Europe and growing WordPress communities.  Tess: Hey and welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. Today I’m joined by Milan, and if you’re in the WordPress space I’m sure you’ll recognise him. He was Global Lead for WordCamp Europe 2019 and then Local Lead the year before that, and has been involved in loads of WordPress related projects for the community. So Milan, would you like to introduce yourself, the company you work for and your role in WordPress? Milan: Yes, thanks Tess. Milan, I live in Serbia, based in Serbia and I work for Valet, we are a company that cares about your website. I think we just released the speed assessment project, and if you have any questions you can DM me but yeah, I’ve been involved in the community for I think six or seven years now. I’m heavily involved in WordPress, even my phone is, you know, can’t escape it. That’s pretty much it.  Tess: You’re on brand with the phone. And I am on brand with the water bottle.  Milan: The things we do for this community right?  Tess: So you said six or seven years you’ve been in the WordPress community, how did you enter? How did you get brought in?  Milan: My first WordCamp was actually the first WordCamp Europe. I was living in Norway at the time and Mark and Ryan were telling me about the WordPress community. We didn’t have the community is Serbia at that time, so I moved to Norway a month after they first set up the first WordPress Meetup here in my city, in Belgrade.  Tess: After you left? Milan: Yeah after I left. So yeah I was reading about the first Meetup happening in Serbia but living in Norway. I attended the first WordCamp Europe in Leiden, and I was amazed and I was like, “How can I help?” That was the first thing, “How can I help?” and it was like: “Yeah well, now it’s too late for you to volunteer but maybe next year,” and I applied. My first volunteering experience for WordCamp Europe was in 2014 in Sofia. I was registration letters A and B.  Tess: I love that, that you remember the fine details.  Milan: Yes that was me, the letters A and B and then on the second day I think they needed some help with the room management. I had no idea what the room management was, but I did track B. Actually Rocio was MC-ing that room and said, “Let me help you, let me give you some details,” you know, “You can help out with the mic,” and a couple of stuff, so I was like, “Oh wow, I actually like this job!” So yeah, I continued volunteering. At the same time I moved back to Serbia in 2014 and continued the work the guys started here with the community. And later we applied and hosted our first WordCamp Belgrade in 2015. Tess: Yes and we’ll definitely get onto that. Actually for the benefit of some of the listeners who might not be used to the idea of WordCamps, or maybe even WordPress, could you introduce what WordPress is and then the WordPress community and WordCamps as well? Milan: Well WordPress is much more than just a platform. We use it for building websites, really simple sites people are even using them for ... Episode 3 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, Tess Coughlan-Allen chats to Milan Ivanović.

Milan lives and breathes WordPress: he’s the WordPress.org global translation editor, WordPress Serbia lead and was one of WordCamp Europe’s lead organisers. Milan was one of the lecturers of the WordPress Academy in Serbia, giving talks and free WordPress Workshops. WordCamp volunteer, speaker, and organiser. Milan is a member of the Theme Review and Community Get Involved Teams. In his spare time, Milan holds WordPress lectures and collects WordCamp T-shirts. He works as a WordPress Developer at Valet.io and you can look him up online with his username: @lanche86.

 

Transcript

Tess: Welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. This is the podcast where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. This week I’m interviewing Milan Ivanović about WordCamp Europe and growing WordPress communities. 


Tess: Hey and welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. Today I’m joined by Milan, and if you’re in the WordPress space I’m sure you’ll recognise him. He was Global Lead for WordCamp Europe 2019 and then Local Lead the year before that, and has been involved in loads of WordPress related projects for the community. So Milan, would you like to introduce yourself, the company you work for and your role in WordPress?

Milan: Yes, thanks Tess. Milan, I live in Serbia, based in Serbia and I work for Valet, we are a company that cares about your website. I think we just released the speed assessment project, and if you have any questions you can DM me but yeah, I’ve been involved in the community for I think six or seven years now. I’m heavily involved in WordPress, even my phone is, you know, can’t escape it. That’s pretty much it. 

Tess: You’re on brand with the phone. And I am on brand with the water bottle. 

Milan: The things we do for this community right? 

Tess: So you said six or seven years you’ve been in the WordPress community, how did you enter? How did you get brought in? 

Milan: My first WordCamp was actually the first WordCamp Europe. I was living in Norway at the time and Mark and Ryan were telling me about the WordPress community. We didn’t have the community is Serbia at that time, so I moved to Norway a month after they first set up the first WordPress Meetup here in my city, in Belgrade. 

Tess: After you left?

Milan: Yeah after I left. So yeah I was reading about the first Meetup happening in Serbia but living in Norway. I attended the first WordCamp Europe in Leiden, and I was amazed and I was like, “How can I help?” That was the first thing, “How can I help?” and it was like: “Yeah well, now it’s too late for you to volunteer but maybe next year,” and I applied. My first volunteering experience for WordCamp Europe was in 2014 in Sofia. I was registration letters A and B. 

Tess: I love that, that you remember the fine details. 

Milan: Yes that was me, the letters A and B and then on the second day I think they needed some help with the room management. I had no idea what the room management was, but I did track B. Actually Rocio was MC-ing that room and said, “Let me help you, let me give you some details,” you know, “You can help out with the mic,” and a couple of stuff, so I was like, “Oh wow, I actually like this job!” So yeah, I continued volunteering. At the same time I moved back to Serbia in 2014 and continued the work the guys started here with the community. And later we applied and hosted our first WordCamp Belgrade in 2015.

Tess: Yes and we’ll definitely get onto that. Actually for the benefit of some of the listeners who might not be used to the idea of WordCamps, or maybe even WordPress, could you introduce what WordPress is and then the WordPress community and WordCamps as well?

Milan: Well WordPress is much more than just a platform. We use it for building websites, really simple sites people are even using them for one-pagers, to really complicated websites. As a platform it’s heavily used, I think something like 33.4% of the top 10,000 sites run on WordPress. The platform, the community, and it’s easy to start using WordPress. I think that’s the hook that got me back in 2007 when I was just changing a couple of small things and I was like, “Well yeah I could get used to this platform.” Then we have WordCamps which are WordPress-specific conferences and we have official WordPress official Meetups where we just basically just go there and chat. Not necessarily on WordPress but on a lot of stuff. The thing that I like about those meet-ups is that you can ask any questions you have and everyone’s super happy to be there. Like every time I go to some Meetup or conference, if I have something going on with a project, there is always someone who can help. 

Tess: Yeah I’ve noticed this, like you said with local Meetups. I see it at lot at the local Bristol group here in the UK, if someone has a problem with something and they can’t quite break through or if they’re a beginner and they need some kind of intro into some part of WordPress, they just post in the chat before the Meetup. In the intro in the Meetup we say so-and-so “asked about this,” or “wants to talk about this,” and people are just so happy to share their insights and their knowledge and I think that’s a core value of WordPress is this big sharing culture. Whether it’s sharing skills, or helping each other organise these events, or the very core of it which is open source. I totally agree that it’s this open culture and like you say everyone’s happy to chat about any topic which is what makes the WordPress community a bit different. I don’t know if you go to many tech events because you go to a lot of WordCamps you probably don’t have time. 

Milan: I’m running out of weekends!

Tess: Haha, yeah. Well, I used to go to a lot of tech events before I got more involved in the WordPress community and it is a different vibe. There’s a definite sense in a WordCamp that organisers are actively trying to be inviting and welcoming and that’s really special I think. 

Milan: I think in Belgrade, when we started with the Meetups, to bring and organise a WordCamp in your city you have to have regular Meetups which I think makes sense on so many levels. You can test out the crowd, you can test out speakers because I think for a lot of people it’s their first time public speaking experience. So we started organising two or three talks, regularly and making small conferences and Meetups but then we talked and we asked the people, “What do you want? Is this format working for you?” Someone actually suggested that maybe we just want to chat and we realised that, I think my favourite Meetup was one without any speakers where we just chatted and asked people, “What do you do, how do you use WordPress?” People just asked questions, because they weren’t aware of the person sitting next to them, they were afraid to ask questions because they were worried that their questions were too basic or not on that level. Yeah, that’s definitely my favourite Meetup and we do that from time to time, I think every three or four months we just have discussions. I think that’s the power of WordPress and that’s the power of Open Source and that’s the power of sharing.

Tess: Yeah, I’ve been to Meetups a bit like that where it’s been more of a Q&A format, but not quite as chatty as you said which would be interesting, because it’s not networking because networking is for a different purpose but it’s connecting. It’s a bit like WordCamp Europe 2019 which we’ve just co-organised where we introduced the WP Cafe concept which is a casual environment where people could go and chat about a specific topic for an hour or so. And that was really well received and it sounds a lot like what you just said, it’s just an informal chance to have a conversation, and it didn’t matter what sort of question you asked. There was a topic starter who was probably the discussion lead but then after that everyone was just chatting and connecting around that topic in whatever way they want. 

Milan: Yes and it’s always amazing to see where that conversation will go. When we announce a Meetup, we always tell people to ask all the questions and we have a pool of questions but then it kind of goes on from that where one person asks a question and it leads on form there. We can sometimes do that for two hours until we’re like okay no now we need to go. 

Tess: So you mentioned already that in order to move forward to have a WordCamp in Serbia, you need to have regular Meetups. So were you already thinking about WordCamp Europe in the very beginning?

Milan: Actually, when we started with the regular Meetups in 2014, we only had one in 2013. In April in 2014 I got back to Serbia and I had no idea what I was doing at all. Just rent and found a space and the guy I was doing it with said he could bring, I think, 100 people to attend this Meetup, and you can offer them coffee and stuff but we actually had zero budget. So I think we scheduled it for 6pm and 15 minutes before that there was only three of us. Me, my brother and my best friend who I asked to take some photos. And in 10 minutes between 80 and 100 people showed up.

Tess: Wow! Were you nervous?

Milan: Yes! It was probably the first and only time I’ve been nervous organising something, because I had no idea what to expect. So we organised three consecutive after that, April, May and then June. And then Sofia happened and we were just thinking about WordCamp in Belgrade which was in 2015 in April. After that they changed the format because I think WordCamp Europe used to be in Autumn, then they pushed it because it was in Seville in June and we had an amazing meeting about 10 or 15 of us, all of us gathered to see what we needed to do to bring WordCamp Europe to our cities. That was when I saw, I attended that conversation, it was actually Jenny who was thinking about Paris and I was thinking about Belgrade and that was the first time I really thought, you know, what if? But to really hold such a big conference in Serbia we really needed to expand the community, not just in Belgrade but across Serbia. Now we are on 14 or 15 cities with WordPress Meetups. WordCamp Europe and the application definitely helped but you know, I know when another guy from Serbia was there in Seville and I said to him, “You know, I’m really thinking of bringing this to Serbia.” He said, “Buddy you’re crazy. The whole organisation, the city, the crowd, you need so much preparation.” So, officially the application and the preparation started in 2015. Yeah we decided that we want to apply once, but once we are all ready so working about that happened in 2016 and 2017 and WordCamp Europe, we applied and we got it.

Tess: Yeah so you had a lot of responsibility bringing WordCamp Europe to your city, Belgrade. And you were Local Lead, so for anyone that doesn’t know, at least at the moment there’s a Local Lead, then a Global Lead, then a bunch of Team Leads, which could be anything from content to sponsors or communications, then there’s a bunch of organisers that go into each of those teams. So as Local Lead, you are ultimately responsible for everything that happened in terms of being in Belgrade but you were leading a team over there.

Milan: Yeah thinking about it, it seems like a lot of work, right? And it was, it was. I remember when we were working on the application and just explaining to our venue, I went there on a first meeting and said, “Hey, we’re working on this application and we want to hold a 2- or 3 thousand people conference and we’re all volunteers.” They were like, “Wait, wait, hold up. You’re all volunteers?” I said yes and pretty much explained what you just did, explained about the size of the organising team and the volunteer team and the speakers are also volunteering and the guy was like, “Yeah but… why?” So I had to spend the first part explaining why we are doing that and why I want to put in so much time to organise a conference like this. In the end he still didn’t get it but he said that I would explain and he would see as we went along. So yeah, when he actually saw us and the first conference organised by volunteers and it was funny we all had those red shirts on that said Belgrade, all the volunteers, and yeah, they were amazed. It’s a lot of work but it definitely pays off. I mean for 95% of people that were there it was there first time in Serbia, which was amazing. 

Tess: Yeah, that’s another benefit of WordPress, you go to your local Meetup in your local city but there’s opportunities to go to other cities and other countries and see the culture there and what brings you together is WordPress and that community. So yeah, WordCamp Europe is hosted in a different city every year, but if you want, you can pretty much go anywhere and go to a WordCamp. In fact where’s the best or most unexpected place you’ve been to a WordCamp? 

Milan: Off the top of my head it would be Kiev. Yeah I went to Kiev in 2016, I think I was actually a speaker there. When I’m thinking about it, WordCamp Netherlands also happened. But thinking about Kiev, I was there at 8am and everyone was already there, they were just the best crowd asking all the questions, on both days. I think they are applying again and I will definitely go there again. I remember in 2016, you know how people are starting slow in the morning or the second day they’re partying too hard I don’t know, but for 220-240 filled the room both days, for every session with a lot of questions. 

Tess: They were switched on then? 

Milan: Yeah they were very engaged. Sometimes I do that, I will say to not wait for the questions just put your hand up and ask, and they were actually doing that and I was like, “This is amazing this works!” Thinking about it though, the organisers put in a lot of effort, with a tour of Kiev and you know, so I wasn’t surprised, but yes I really enjoyed Kiev. 

Tess: Yeah I think it really makes a difference when the organisers take the time to bring you into their city and make that little bit of effort out of the normal conference context and help you experience the city. And that’s actually what you and your team did a lot with the WordCamp in Belgrade. There was a lot of help for people to understand the city, Belgrade and make the most of it and find the pockets of the city, the trendy parts, and what you can get in each area. That I think helps you enjoy the experience, I think because everyone’s very different. Some people are lone travellers, and some people haven’t travelled much and some people have travelled a lot so giving people that helping hand can do a long way. 

Milan: Oh exactly. I think with WordCamp Europe we’re doing an amazing job. Preparing the content and sharing the information before the event. We had to do that a lot for Belgrade because it was a bigger unknown, you know. I mean this year it was Berlin, I mean it’s Berlin everyone’s heard something about it but for Belgrade we had to do a lot of preparation. One amazing story was in 2016 I was in charge of volunteers and two guys from Nepal flew all the way and that was their first trip in Europe and when we communicated before, they were like, “Hey, this is our first time and if you could help us, just point us in the right direction.” I was their Team Lead so I organised the volunteers and them specifically so I made sure I organised them how they wanted, so I put them both together. So this year I went on a trip to Nepal and they were there just like, “You know you treated us like guests in Vienna, so you know,” they were super welcoming hosting me and Ryan. They took us on amazing trips, took us to their holy land and amazing monuments and lots of local cuisine, you know. That’s a thing that we’re doing, but you know we are changing lives. And then when you see things for a couple of months or years then it pays off. Yeah I’m happy we could share a couple of things and some stuff about Belgrade, was amazing. 

Tess: I’m a very firm believer in whatever you give, eventually you’ll get back, and that’s not a reason to give but it’s a nice benefit and I definitely think the nature of the WordPress community, it’s very open and welcoming and that’s going to benefit us all. Like that example where you hosted people, in Vienna at least, you helped them and they’ve been ready to repay you and you’ve had this amazing experience in Nepal. I think that’s so cool!

Milan: Yeah I think we’re doing this in every conference and in every Meetup, these small things specifically for Belgrade and IT in Serbia where IT is a great way for people to work and escape abroad and just sharing the experience and showing there’s a lot more than this if you’re into WordPress or open source, I’ve had a couple of people attend Meetups and tell me that it’s changed the way they are thinking especially cities outside and people approaching after a couple of Meetups and now they’re taking over and they’re getting involved and going now it’s out turn to give back so yeah I think those small things are really important. 

Tess: So as you mentioned you went from Local Lead in Belgrade to Global Lead for WordPress Europe 2019, which has just happened this year in Berlin in Germany, so what was that transition like going from Local to Global Lead? And how was the experience of Global Lead?

Milan: So that switch makes a lot of sense for someone who was involved in application and having all that work behind the local team organising and bringing everything, there’s just that shared knowledge. But when we talk about Global Lead 2019 and Jenny asked me what my thoughts my first thing was yes I want to do it so let’s just take a second and think about it. It’s a big commitment, financially of course, you’re dedicating a full year of your life emotionally it’s a long process, you are dealing with a lot of stuff starting with the from small things to really big ones like the organising team the number of tracks, the content, the budget, all the logistics and because it’s a long process it takes a lot of courage and a lot of dedication. Why I accepted it? It was totally out of my comfort zone, I was like yes, I want to do this because it’s a little out of my comfort zone and I want to work with remote teams and people and yeah, just that switch to Global Team Lead just happened and when Jenny posted on P2 saying she was nominating me and the responses saying, “yeah,” “yeah,” “yeah,” I was like, “Yeah, so… this is going to be a big thing!” Joking aside, it was an amazing experience I had the pleasure to work with amazing people and yeah I loved it. I enjoyed every second of organising the conference. 

Tess: What would you say were the biggest lessons you learnt and some of the biggest challenges as Global Lead? 

Milan: I think that I learned a lot over the year, just like dealing with stress because this year we had a couple of stressful situations so I learned how to handle that and control it. I also learnt how to control my excitement as well, because in the beginning someone would like, “Oh let’s do this!” and I would be like “Yeah! Let’s do it!” But actually we couldn’t afford it or it wasn’t something I planned or something I wanted, or what other people on the team want. So those are a couple of things and I think the biggest thing I keep repeating is that it’s a long process. So I started as Global Lead in March or April 2018 and there’s still a couple of things I’m handling now, so we’re closing and dealing with the budget and the last bits because the impact that WordCamp Europe as a flagship event is bringing to people can be a little stressful, just a little bit. 

Tess: Absolutely. And for 2020 we’ll learn from some of that as well so we’re having 3 Global Leads which is myself, Bernhard and Jonas. And we’re splitting some of the responsibility so it’s less on one person, so it’s split into pillars that will be communication, budget and logistics. I think that’s probably a lot healthier especially as it’s growing, because we’re not really trying to make it grow as much, as it’s growing organically, because as you said it changes people’s lives and they tell other people they have to go to the event and with more than 3,000 tickets sold you can’t have all that on one Global Lead. Even if it’s shared with the Local Lead and other Team Leads, ultimately that person is the person everyone feels is responsible for all the decisions, even though it doesn’t work that way. So I think, yeah, much healthier for next year to share the responsibility, but yeah, we have big boots to fill for sure! 

Milan: Yeah I think it makes sense because we keep adding things, just like, small things. Like this year there was the WP Cafe, Charity Drop, a third track, all these things keep adding but as you say we’re not forcing it, we’re just growing in attendance and tickets sold. But yeah, it’s a big role and a lot of responsibilities and it doesn’t have to be this way. WordCamp US, they’re also doing the 3 leads, they have a little bit of a different structure, but with 3 leads, when I spoke to Angela in Helsinki it made total sense for Europe to switch to 3 Global Leads because as you said it’s a lot of decisions that you need to make daily and keeping and having all the stuff even though the local team is putting so much and they’re organising all the catering and the big items, there’s only one to hold it, at least until this year. But yeah, you guys will do a great job and I’ve seen you all work together and you’re all different and all amazing as a team, you know, you did an amazing job this year and it’s something that if we want WordCamp Europe to grow we need strong leads and a strong team and a vision and that’s something I see if all you. So Jonas being super strict with all the sponsors and Bernhard holding a lot of things together, you guys will be great this one it will be amazing. I’m not sure it’ll be that big boots to fill but you know. 

Tess: They will be! One thing you haven’t mentioned about being Global Lead actually, and maybe it’s just something that comes naturally to you, but you’ve mentioned the logistics, the budget and overseeing all those sub teams as well, but you are also support system for loads and loads of people, especially the ten Team Leads. So how did that feel to you, being that person that people would come to if they were worried or needed some help? 

Milan: Well I knew it was going to be decisions that are tough to make, especially since all of us are volunteers and we are all friends and I know everyone, maybe I haven’t met them in person but I know everyone on the teams for 2019. I knew there’d be a couple of decisions but I never expected this much. We started officially in August, a bit of a bumpy ride with the organising team, but setting the expectations was the first thing that I did but then overseeing how every team was working, that was the first challenge that I had to deal with, a couple of decisions I had to make in the beginning and overseeing the team and making sure the base of the team. WordCamp Europe we started on September 1st officially, even though we started with the core organising team just after Belgrade. But the good thing is that not all the teams have the same load throughout the year, so you’re team had quite a big load throughout and sponsor had a little setting the floor plans and the design, but community team and volunteers they could easily start working later in the year with calls and stuff. It was a challenging thing but the one thing that I wanted but couldn’t do it because of time commitments was to chat with everyone all the time you know, but our bi-weekly and weekly meetings really helped, just to show out there just to see if they need anything from me then fade to black. I never expected this much but I had the chance to work with an amazing team and you could see that everyone was pretty much happy in Berlin. 

Tess: Oh absolutely. 

Milan: We put a lot of hours but it paid off. 

Tess: Yeah so in 2019 we were really enthusiastic and we came up with loads of new tools and activities, so for example the Contributor Orientation Tool where people could find out how they could best contribute to WordPress using their skills, Wellness and WCEU which was a series of yoga, meditation and mindfulness sessions during the conference, which was a chance to reconnect with yourself away from the event. We mentioned WP Cafe and loads of others. Which one was the one you were most proud to see through to completion with the help of the organising team?

Milan: Well when we started when the Local Team brought up the idea for zero waste for the conference and they were like, “We would really like it,” and the venue is willing to, and zero waste, and we can change things especially with a lot of print outs and stuff. We did that with Belgrade with recycling and recycling stations but then we had some cups and we had some things that we would improve but we didn’t so when they brought in the idea of zero waste we were like, “Yes, let’s do it,” and I think we had a couple of things we could not predict, we spoke about the coffee, we changed the things that were missing in Belgrade like coffee cups and the glasses and we removed a lot of a plastic but there were things we could not remove like the plastic cups on the first day. 

Tess: Yeah so that was for hygiene purposes, it’s tricky. 

Milan: It is tricky. We had some different expectations but still I’m proud of that one. I’m proud of Wellness actually, because I was part of it with you guys in the Comms Team, Abha said, “Do you want to see how it goes and I could see the back rooms?” We all can be proud and the extra content this year, workshops. In Belgrade we had sign ups for Belgrade for workshops that didn’t work. This year, although it’s been challenging for some to wait in a queue and wait for a registration, we thought that was the best thing to do and we will do a survey and we will see what people think of it. Actually a lot of stuff but zero waste is probably on top. And third track, content, maybe.

Tess: On the topic of zero waste and sustainability, one of my favourite things from the conference was in closing remarks you announced that all the banners and signage which were beautiful by the way because the theme was street art and graffiti which is very special to Berlin because of the East side gallery and the Berlin Wall, so all of the art work around the venue and all the printed material, we’re working with another organisation to turn that material into bags so basically it’s all going to be reused, recycled basically, so then people will have the chance to get these beautiful street art WordCamp 2019 bags, which is awesome.

Milan: Yes this year I think we printed 166m so yeah go and see what Nikolai and the local team think about this distributing, but yes it is amazing and it’s introduced this year and we got a big applause so people seemed pretty happy with the idea. 

Tess: Yeah I was watching the crowd to see what they all thought of this idea, and honestly you could see the faces light up and everyone was really really happy and it’s really nice because obviously we had other related ideas like the charity drops where people could bring old t-shirts that they got from old WordCamps to the venue and drop them off and they’d be donated to a charity in Berlin, so there were all these ways related to reusing and recycling even just related to WordCamp specifically, so that’s a really nice way for people to still be involved and get a t-shirt or having banners at a WordCamp but being happy in the knowledge that there can be some more sustainable outcomes. 

Milan: Just these small details and small changes every year that we are introducing, and we are testing and experimenting but we are relying on feedback and other members of the organising team, so yeah, we’ll see.

Tess: Big thank you to Milan for such an interesting interview. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did you can like, subscribe and listen again next week. This is the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle.

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Episode 3 of the Loud Ideas podcast The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, Tess Coughlan-Allen chats to Milan Ivanović. Milan lives and breathes WordPress: he’s the WordPress. Episode 3 of the Loud Ideas podcast<br /> The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, Tess Coughlan-Allen chats to Milan Ivanović.<br /> Milan lives and breathes WordPress: he’s the WordPress.org global translation editor, WordPress Serbia lead and was one of WordCamp Europe's lead organisers. Milan was one of the lecturers of the WordPress Academy in Serbia, giving talks and free WordPress Workshops. WordCamp volunteer, speaker, and organiser. Milan is a member of the Theme Review and Community Get Involved Teams. In his spare time, Milan holds WordPress lectures and collects WordCamp T-shirts. He works as a WordPress Developer at Valet.io and you can look him up online with his username: @lanche86.<br /> <br /> <br />  <br /> Transcript<br /> Tess: Welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. This is the podcast where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. This week I’m interviewing Milan Ivanović about WordCamp Europe and growing WordPress communities. <br /> <br /> Tess: Hey and welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. Today I’m joined by Milan, and if you’re in the WordPress space I’m sure you’ll recognise him. He was Global Lead for WordCamp Europe 2019 and then Local Lead the year before that, and has been involved in loads of WordPress related projects for the community. So Milan, would you like to introduce yourself, the company you work for and your role in WordPress?<br /> Milan: Yes, thanks Tess. Milan, I live in Serbia, based in Serbia and I work for Valet, we are a company that cares about your website. I think we just released the speed assessment project, and if you have any questions you can DM me but yeah, I’ve been involved in the community for I think six or seven years now. I’m heavily involved in WordPress, even my phone is, you know, can’t escape it. That’s pretty much it. <br /> Tess: You’re on brand with the phone. And I am on brand with the water bottle. <br /> Milan: The things we do for this community right? <br /> Tess: So you said six or seven years you’ve been in the WordPress community, how did you enter? How did you get brought in? <br /> Milan: My first WordCamp was actually the first WordCamp Europe. I was living in Norway at the time and Mark and Ryan were telling me about the WordPress community. We didn’t have the community is Serbia at that time, so I moved to Norway a month after they first set up the first WordPress Meetup here in my city, in Belgrade. <br /> Tess: After you left?<br /> Milan: Yeah after I left. So yeah I was reading about the first Meetup happening in Serbia but living in Norway. I attended the first WordCamp Europe in Leiden, and I was amazed and I was like, “How can I help?” That was the first thing, “How can I help?” and it was like: “Yeah well, now it’s too late for you to volunteer but maybe next year,” and I applied. My first volunteering experience for WordCamp Europe was in 2014 in Sofia. I was registration letters A and B. <br /> Tess: I love that, that you remember the fine details. <br /> Milan: Yes that was me, the letters A and B and then on the second day I think they needed some help with the room management. I had no idea what the room management was, but I did track B. Actually Rocio was MC-ing that room and said, “Let me help you, let me give you some details,” you know, “You can help out with the mic,” and a couple of stuff, so I was like, “Oh wow, I actually like this job!” So yeah, I continued volunteering. At the same time I moved back to Serbia in 2014 and continued the work the guys started here with the community. And later we applied and hosted our first WordCamp Belgrade in 2015.<br /> Tess: Yes and we’ll definitely get onto that. Actually for the benefit of some of the listeners who might not be used to the idea of WordCamps, or maybe even WordPress, could you introduce what WordPress is and then the WordPress community and WordCamps as well?<br /> Loud Ideas clean
Episode #2: Loud Ideas – The Power of Networking with Francesca Marano https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-2-loud-ideas-power-of-networking-francesca-marano/ Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:42:45 +0000 https://www.minddoodle.com/?p=47763 In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking.  

Episode 2 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Richard Hill talking to Francesca Marano.

Francesca is the WordPress Community Manager at SiteGround. She is one of the team representatives for the global WordPress Community Team, and volunteers as a WordCamp mentor and a Community Deputy.

A passionate speaker, Francesca delivers talks all over the world about WordPress, the community, open source, women in tech, and small businesses. Francesca also founded C+B, a blog with an editorial staff of more than eighty authors offering advice for Italian female creative entrepreneurs.

 

Did this episode inspire you?

Mind Doodle is where you can Make Ideas Happen. Our podcast is where we Make Ideas Loud.

Explore and develop your own ideas using our free tool for mind mapping and creative project management.

Listen to more episodes of the Loud Ideas podcast.

 

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In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking. In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking. Loud Ideas clean
Episode #1: Loud Ideas – Inclusive Marketing with Joyann Boyce https://www.minddoodle.com/blog/episode-1-loud-ideas-inclusive-marketing-with-joyann-boyce/ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:57:14 +0000 https://minddoodle-elementor.wpmudev.host/?p=48172 In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking. Episode 1 of the Loud Ideas podcast

The Loud Ideas podcast is where all ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. In this episode, we hear Tess Coughlan-Allen talking to Joyann Boyce (aka Joy), a social media consultant and founder of The Social Detail.

Joy works with SMEs, with a focus on technology companies to maximise their impact through social media. The Social Detail has worked with a range of organisations such as Bristol City Council, Black Girl Convention, SETsquared and Future Space; and is an avid advocate for diversity and inclusion partnering on projects with TechSPARK such as SHIFT to create diverse stock photography.

 

Transcript

Tess: The Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle aims to provoke new ideas and fresh thinking for our audience. All ideas are allowed, so we make them loud. My name’s Tess and this week, I’m interviewing Joyann Boyce about inclusive marketing

Tess: Welcome to the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle. Today I’m joined by Joyann Boyce, the founder of The Social Detail and a good friend of mine, but Joy I would love it if you could introduce yourself to our listeners yourself, both personally and professionally.

Joy: Oh personally, that’s a whole new level! So yeah hi, I’m Joyann Boyce, aka Joy and I’m the founder of Social Detail which is a social media marketing agency. We’re also champions in inclusive marketing which we’re going to talk about later. I’m also the co-founder of the BAME Collective, which is a social group for BAME people within Bristol. Now the personal side, hmm. I have no hobbies at the moment but I’m trying to find some.

Tess: Well to be fair, you’ve kept yourself so busy over the last few years because we met about two or three years ago.

Joy: It’s been that long!

Tess: Yeah, I know.

Joy: Oh wow. Yeah it’s been a minute and we met just looking for stuff to learn.

Tess: Yeah! So I think it was the women in tech community in Bristol, but we’ve done a whole bunch of stuff together like co-organise the Bristol WordPress People Meetup.

Joy: Yeah we did that for about a year together.

Tess: That was good!

Joy: Yeah that was really good, some really good memories. Some good logo choices as always.

Tess: Some really good rebranding.

Joy: Yeah it’s been an interesting two years because it’s also, I think, the two years that I’ve been running the business as well. Everything has happened within that time, everything has flourished. I kind of decided to start 101 projects all at the same time, but it’s been fun.

Tess: And now even you’ve built a team, you’ve built a client base, you’ve moved a couple of offices.

Joy: Yeah, currently moving offices again. But I started out just myself, I actually started through the Prince’s Trust. I went through their Enterprise Programme, then I went through the NatWest Programme. I was a bit of a programme junkie for a little bit.

Tess: Hey, it’s good because you get to learn, you get to teach others because I think you were teaching others as well?

Joy: Yes, I was teaching others in terms of social management doing a lot of skills swapping. Also, that’s where I found one of my very first team members, through the NatWest Programme. They were someone else’s intern and I was like, you know what, they don’t appreciate you and I will.

Tess: I will help you grow.

Joy: Yeah, so since then it’s now a team of four of us at the moment so I’m always taking on new interns, I have this kind of rule… I’m self taught, I’d rather take on someone with no experience with passion and initiative than someone with a marketing degree.

Tess: Ah, I love that.

Joy: Because I don’t have one, so I want that kind of ,”Okay, you don’t know the answer, I don’t know the answer. Let’s figure it out,” and in the world of social you need to have that initiative because things are changing. Instagram was down a couple of hours ago.

Tess: I know! Twitter went mad with Instagram down.

Joy: Yep and then WhatsApp started acting up and I was like, “Yes, this is what happens when someone has the monopoly on a lot of platforms,” but anywho, social media politics.

Tess: So you mentioned inclusive marketing in your intro, and that’s probably the main topic we’re going to talk about today. For listeners that might not know about inclusive marketing can you just introduce the topic.

Joy: It’s really interesting actually. It’s something that I did kind of naturally, but I didn’t realise it was rare until I was having a conversation with someone. So I am part of a team, one of my clients is Black Girl Convention.

Tess: Oh yeah.

Joy: And for that convention we are very proactive in making sure we hear stories from everyone’s background. So the founder of the organisation was always making sure she heard a story from someone championing their skills, whether they were from an older generation or they were from a disabled background or whatever it was, she was trying to be as intersectional as possible. That kind of informed my marketing, because if I’m going to speak about someone I am going to make sure I’m going to represent, so we had a speaker who is the only disabled horse rider in the UK and also a black woman.

Tess: Wow.

Joy: So the levels of intersection in terms of oppressed group, skill set, experience was just so vast. And then post that, whenever I would speak about how I approached the marketing with that people were just like, “Oh!”, they didn’t quite get it.

Tess: So basically you’d speak about how you run your business, and people were surprised because they realised that they didn’t do it in the right way.

Joy: Yeah and it’s always interesting because, I guess, me coming from an oppressed group, me being a woman and me being a black woman, it was things that I would think of naturally. It would be like okay if I’m going to include, if I’m going to talk about the founders or the top 100 founders in my Twitter stream I want to find female and male. I would naturally do that. If I’m going to do this I’m going to find this and this and this.It wasn’t so much for me in terms of I’m doing it because I think I should, and that’s what the world is doing, I was doing it because I’m interested.

That was where the conversation around inclusive marketing came about because a lot of people were championing in different areas in Bristol. The listeners may not know but Bristol tends to be a very diverse city and there are all these stats about 19 languages being spoken and all these percentages being chucked around, but over the last two or three years, a lot of people have been campaigning for representation. For me that’s in two parts, it’s representation internally, in companies and in workplaces, but on the flip side, if that company isn’t marketing that, if they’re not showing that their inclusive or representative then nobody’s going to approach them.

So that’s how I started to look at it. Okay, at the end of the day, the numbers may not say that every single company is going to have someone representative from every oppressed group, but having an awareness of it, having the knowledge that you can still reach your target audience but your target audience has layers. That’s what I went through when I did my Social Media Week talk, it was very much, “This is your target persona.” We used the example Gillette, so I was like, “Close your eyes,” you can do it with me now listeners, “Close your eyes and imagine the idea Gillette man,” and quite frankly everyones going to imagine a white man whose in a suit, living a busy life, and straight.

That’s just what we’ve been fed over the years and years. However, Gillette, with their most recent campaign which has come out this year, 2019, they flipped that. They did a story about learning to shave for the first time from the viewpoint of a transgender man, being taught by his dad. So you’ve got trans, you’ve got generational and it was a black man as well. So that was intersectional where they were still targeting your audiences, because everyone who shaves has learnt to shave for the first time.

Tess: Well that’s an interesting subtopic as well, because when people think of inclusive marketing or design or UX, and accessibility, sometimes in businesses they sort of think, “Oh we’re doing this because it’s right,” but you’re also showing that you’re doing it because it’s the right business choice as well as the right thing to do.

Joy: Yeah and that’s the bit that I think is the next stage. The word diversity gets chucked around a lot, and it gets chucked around sometimes in this tokenistic or this, “Oh this poor group we need to help, we need to donate to this charity,” but at the same time if businesses can see in this win-win situation, especially in our generation, we’re looking at companies and we’re saying, “Oh, okay ,you use plastic? Yeah, we’re not coming.’

Tess: Yeah and it’s easier now to group together and say, “Okay, we don’t put up with this.” Maybe I say it’s easier, maybe it’s just because I’m noticing it. It can happen.

Joy: It can definitely happen because of social media, because we can share the message. You might not know anyone around you who champions for disabled people but you can go on Twitter and find them like that and then share the message that the company has been discriminatory. So it’s hitting companies in two aspects. Yes they can make money if they do it genuinely and they do their research and they do authentically approach the different groups. However, they can also save themselves a lot of bad PR.

Tess: Yeah so it’s makes money or potentially lose money. That’s a really interesting way to put it. Also, on a similar topic, you were involved in a really interesting campaign or a project called Shift. And I think that was you working with TechSPARK and I’m not sure if there were other partners involved.

Joy: The programme Shift was run by TechSPARK and essentially it was to get more diverse voices into the tech sector and into the networks. I always call myself ‘tech-adjacent’, because I know it, I get it, I’m probably a lot more techy than a lot of people, but at the same time I’m never going to sit down and learn python or javascript. I know what hex code is. That was a very nerdy joke. So, yeah, it was people like myself and other people from different backgrounds and some people who actually work in tech, give them the confidence to speak.

In the very first meeting I mentioned when building my website I couldn’t find any stock photos of, just, hands on keyboards. Because I had to use stock photos when I first started, the same as any new business, you don’t have money for a photographer.

Tess: Yeah you use stock photos.

Joy: You use stock photos and you use free stock photos. But I still wanted it to look like it was mine. So I would go onto all stock photo websites just looking for a pair of hands, female black hands on a keyboard and I just couldn’t find it. In mentioning that, there was, kind of, the initiative of, “Hey, let’s do our version of that. Let’s create stock images for people to use,” so TechSPARK and I got together and collected in terms of the other people that were in the SETSquared and TechSPARK community and made sure that it was women and people who were represented in non-binary to put together the photoshoot, which landed on the BBC as well.

Tess: Yeah and you were the face of this as well! You were in the press, you were on the front page of the newspaper, you were in the BBC. So how did that feel actually, being sort of propelled into the limelight because not only were you a big part of the project but ended up being the face of the campaign in terms of the photo.

Joy: It was the first time, so it’s kind of come full circle now in that I understand the how and why things work. It was very much okay yay I’ll do this, I’ll do this, I’ll do this, but at the same time it was good business sense and when I first started out I was just like oh it’s fine I’ll just go on the BBC without realising how much that meant, how much power the BBC has, which might be a generational thing I guess since I get all my news from Twitter. So I was like, “Okay, yes do people still watch?”

Tess: And they do.

Joy: Yeah they definitely do! A couple of people hit me up on email after that and I was like, “Oh wow.”

Tess: So people emailing you like clients or just other people you knew in the industry?

Joy: So it was a mixture. It was a mixture of people who had seen it and wanted to work with me. I think going back to the idea of tokenism, I had the experience where a charity reached out to me because they wanted me to attend an event which was about a law firm helping people in Africa and I had to go back to them and ask, “Did you watch the piece, or…?” I had to approach it where I had to say, “I understand why you reached out to me because you saw a black woman on TV but I do tech and marketing.”

Tess: Yeah so that’s funny, so you do tech and marketing but you’re also having to educate people a lot of the time and that’s a burden that you shouldn’t have to have.

Joy: It’s a tricky one. I do choose my days especially with a lot of the, you know, how busy the networking scene in Bristol can be. Sometimes I’m like, “Okay, that’s how you choose to do things I’m happy for you to go ahead.”

Tess: And you can take a step back and it’s no weight off your shoulders.

Joy: Or I can also say, “Pay me,” which tends to make people very very quiet.

Tess: Yeah so if you want to have my insight or whatever, you can pay for my time.

Joy: Mhm and people get really quiet! It’s surprising when you apply business to it because I think people always think, “Oh it has to be for the good of the world,” and I’m like no you need my time, I am a business owner.

Tess: Your time is expensive as a business owner as well.

Joy: Yeah and eventually if I am going to help you make money, why not? But hey, we’re getting there. There are movements being made.

Tess: Absolutely. You mentioned as well that you sort of bring in inclusive marketing into your day to day in the agency that you run, but can you tell us a bit more about what you might do practically in a campaign, or your processes and how inclusive marketing, I know it’s sort of naturally, but for people who might not understand, how are you bringing it in practically.

Joy: So there’s different levels with it. There’s things that you can actively do in terms of outreach. So on Twitter is an easy example, reaching out to oppressed groups that we are not experts in. We go out, we share their results, we use our platform to help. In terms of direct physical accessibility, on all the platforms you can put alternative text, which helps people with screen readers. In terms of representation we like to highlight anyone, and also encourage our clients within the community, to highlight people with diverse backgrounds.

So it’s not just that you’re talking about your company or yourself, which is the core of social media marketing anyway, you need to talk about the community that you’re engaging with. So those are the kind of aspect that we do, when I start out with clients I try to create Twitter lists of people who are championing for inclusion within their sectors, then start engaging with those people. And it’s also a learning part on both ends, in terms of if there’s an opportunity within the company or the organisation, I will reach out to those communities first if I hear about it, to pass it on to them versus just generally putting it out in a generic tweet.

Tess: That’s really interesting. So yeah, when you said levels earlier, I didn’t realise quite how many level there were.

Joy: Yeah you have to visualise, you have the physical accessibility and then you have the, not influencers, I guess role models more so.

Tess: So what else can you tell us about learning on the job? You said that you’re self-taught and that’s both for social media and for running your own business so I’m sure you have lots of insights that you could share.

Joy: Yeah, so many! I think the number one rule, that I’m reminding myself constantly is that everyone is making it up. Everyone is making it up along the way because things are changing so quickly, especially with the whole internet aspect a lot of the old business methods aren’t necessarily applicable. So in terms of learning social, I was a mini influencer way back when.

Tess: On what platform?

Joy: Twitter

Tess: I knew you were going to say Twitter! Because way back when, that was the thing.

Joy: Yeah then I had a mini freak out and I went travelling and I was like, “I do not need to be connected to the internet.” So then I went through all the possible courses, I reached out to people. One thing I always recommend when people approach you and say, “How did you do this?”, I went ham on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is a really underrated network because people always look at it in terms of, “Oh, I’m trying to get a job,” but in terms of information and people wanting to help, I remember the first couple of months of me trying to work out what social media managers actually do. You’re kind of making it up and putting out fires on social, but all the blogs make it sound really fun and cool and I was thinking this is not my day to day, so what is day to day for people? So I reached out to about 50 social media managers.

Tess: And you messaged them not saying I want to say, “I want to get into your company,” you were reaching out for support?

Joy: I was literally like, “Hey, what do you do day to day? I’m trying to get into this.” And I would say, out of the 50 I had five people who sent me really valuable messages. One person got on the phone with me, and she answered one of my biggest questions, because at the time I was really paranoid about being sued because I didn’t know anything about business, I just though if you mess up, the company is going to sue you. She just said that there’s insurance for that and I was like, “I can get insurance for a Tweet?!” On the phone I could hear her face kind of get confused. The Prince’s Trust is great but a lot of the mentors there are of a certain generation.

Tess: And they’re not going to know the agency that you run or the business that you start. Otherwise, if they knew it so well, there probably wouldn’t be space for you to start, right?

Joy: This is true. That was an amazing phone call. She was like, “Okay cool, I’m just going to break down everything, accountants, get insurance, do this, do that,” and I was like, “Oh, it’s that simple!” It really made me chuckle, and someone else replied to me on LinkedIn as well, where he outlined his whole day.

Tess: I really love this story, I don’t think we’ve ever spoken about this. Sometimes when you put out what you need to the universe, even if you do it directly, it’s really nice to know that some people will come back and bring you real value out of the goodness of their hearts. And have you stayed in touch with any of them?

Joy: No, one of them has no become a competitor. I haven’t ever met her, she’s based in Bristol so I’ve met some of her employees and team, and she’s bigger than me but I’m like, “Oh, I’m coming for you now.” But no, they kind of helped, the conversation went back and forth and one person did message me about a year later and said they had been following my journey ,which was just like “What? What journey?” but that was really nice. Outside of that it’s been radio silence.

It’s interesting that you mention putting things out into the universe because I have a really bad habit of saying things and forgetting. I meet with my mentors monthly, and I will say things to them because I’m supposed to say a goal, forget it, and then the next time I meet with them I’ve actually achieved it. So it’s really interesting, and looking at this situation, one of the goals was to have more speaking opportunities.

Tess: Yay, brilliant. That’s actually one of my goals as well. It’s a scary goal, but hopefully will get easier with time, just like anything, including your day to day work, you know, it’s always going to be harder at the start.

Joy: And it’s nothing like having, like I think you’ve recently had assistants and stuff, when you have people come in and you realise, “Oh you do that in two hours, not five minutes, okay.”

Tess: Oh gosh, yeah, like when you first start having people on your team, you think, “I’ve made the biggest mistake of my life because this is going to take so long. This is the opposite of what I thought was going to happen,” but then there’s this magical moment which seems to come out of the blue where they produce really amazing work and you think, “They’ve done it! They can do it!” and it’s just giving people a little bit of time to grow and then, we said this earlier, with other stuff, but it’s the same for everything, but time to grow and a little bit of faith as well.

Joy: Definitely on the faith path. One of my team members, Liz, it was actually a scary moment, we had a new intern come in and I was busy doing something that was either client-based or whatever and I couldn’t respond. I just heard Liz say the thought I was thinking in response to the intern and I just thought, “Oh, she’s absorbed it, it’s good, it’s working.” Then she also had the confidence to go through the work and approve things, things I was doing with her a good few months ago has built up and she feels like she’s good enough to do it. That to me, outside of any certificate or award, was the best feeling ever.

Tess: Yeah because you’re not only giving them responsibility, but you’re taking a weight off your own shoulders and you can get more and more confident in your own agency, and the kind of goal for most founders or people who lead teams is to make themselves as redundant as they can be.

Joy: Yeah I say that to my clients, I say that to everyone, I like to work in a replaceable manner. If I was to, touch wood, step off a bridge tomorrow or go somewhere, you can carry on. Especially sometimes clients are like, “What do you mean?” because they’re so used to agencies holding everything behind closed doors because they want you to keep coming to them, but you’re coming to me for my expertise and because you don’t want to do it and you can’t do it.

Tess: That’s so interesting. So you’re being transparent, beyond transparent, saying this is how it works. You don’t want to do it, we’ll do it, but you’re not trying to put wool in front of someone’s eyes. That’s a really different approach, again, we’re talking about traditional compared to now, but a really different approach compared to what you think of when you think of agencies. The way they present a project, they’re always trying to mystify you, and you’re trying to demystify it essentially.

Joy: And this is one of the joys of my world, because things move so fast it doesn’t affect me if I share information or educate people or educate clients because it’s not their world. At the end of the day I’m the one that’s living in it so they’re going to come back in one way or another. If that’s that, they pass it on, and then it can help someone, I don’t know who that could be. That was one of the biggest lessons in the NatWest Programme. It was don’t pitch to the people in the room, pitch through them. So I could answer questions and help people out and help educate them and they can pass that, I call it social currency online, but human currency, which sounds wrong.

Tess: But, yeah the value.

Joy: Yeah the value, that’s it. They pass it on and keep it going.

Tess: And so when you talk about clients, do you have any insights on getting clients or keeping clients or anything like that that you’re willing to share?

Joy: It is a mission. When I started out, very much like any freelance or agency or anything like that starting out, one person band, I went in thinking any work that comes along I’m going to grab it. I’m going to do it no matter the price and one thing I will say that I’ve learnt is that when you’re meeting a client or you’re meeting someone, it’s a two way interview. It’s definitely, “Are you a fit and am I a fit?”

I’d say because taking on someone in a rush, or taking on a client and things aren’t clear and you haven’t been through that courting or dating process it can make things difficult and breakups messy, so my advice on that one would be to take the time to get to know them, and figure out what their wants are and their why. If you can work out why they’re doing whatever they’re doing then you can make an informed decision in whatever your service is for them and make it fit with their “why” and their overall passion.

Outside of that I would say make sure you have your T&Cs, but have something basic to begin with, because you have the flip side of some people read everything, and some people read nothing, and if someone reads everything it’s great and they’ll pull you up on things that they want to change and so forth. The ones that read nothing and sign very long contracts tend to be problematic because as a client they will start asking for things and you’ll have to refer back to the contract and it becomes a bit parent-style.

You’re like, “But in your thing it says this, or in your thing it says that,” or you start getting agitated with yourself or start agitating your team because you start going out of your scope because you don’t want to upset the client. So it’s managing expectations and managing understanding. I’m still working on that, that’s definitely an area where I learn something new, every single new client.

Tess: Yeah I can imagine. So finally, you talked earlier about how you’re expanding your portfolio of talks and you’ve given some talks, how can people find those? We can link them in the podcast but how can they find you online.

Joy: So you can find me and the agency online @thesocialdetail on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. In terms of the talks, none of them have been recorded as of yet, so when our new website is live at the end of July, putting it into the universe, I’ll have all the articles and everything linked because a lot of people find it helpful. It’s really weird, I know you’ve live tweeted with me before but being on the other side, when people are quoting you, it’s such a strange feeling.

Tess: You look back on it and go, “Oh is that what I said? That sounds really good.”

Joy: Yeah, yeah like, “Oh that was really quotable, sounds amazing.” So it’s been really interesting doing that. I am going to be doing more around the inclusive marketing talks. I also want to do things around social media and accessibility for disabled people which is a project I’m working on, because a lot of people aren’t aware of the whole screen readers and a lot of people are using captions on their videos solely for the reason that people don’t turn their sound on, and it’s like, “No, there are people with hearing difficulties who use social as well.”

So just a little thing about that, and I want to incorporate that with a charity, but these are all things that but these are all things that I’m putting into the universe hoping to do but I really am enjoying the journey.

Tess: It’s really fun again, to watch you on the journey, and I love seeing how things change, all the new projects that you take on and these ones especially sound really exciting.

Joy: I’m currently working on one about open source design at the moment, hence why I was so interesting at the last event that I saw you at, talking about open source with…

Tess: Francesca from SiteGround was giving a talk on open source at the Bristol WordPress People Meetup in July.

Joy: Yes, that was really, really interesting. Especially to hear how WordPress has grown so quickly and the struggles it went through initially to being known. Like, if a websites not made on WordPress, what’s it made on?

Tess: It’s also interesting to find out that WordPress isn’t the biggest open source community, because when you’re involved you think it is, but obviously that’s not the case. There’s a whole other set of worlds out there.

Joy: I actually asked her what the strangest thing she’s ever seen open sourced and she said someone’s open sourced a recipe to a drink and I’m like, “How?” Does everyone add in a flavour and then the results?

Tess: Oh, yeah.

Joy: I need to find out how that happened. But yeah, it’s really interesting, that whole community aspect is definitely one of the core values.


Tess: The intention of the Loud Ideas podcast is to provoke new thoughts and fresh thinking for our listeners and I have no doubt that is exactly what Joy has done. Thank you to Joy for sharing her insights so freely, and thank you for listening. You can like, subscribe and listen again next week. This is the Loud Ideas podcast by Mind Doodle.

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In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking. In episode two of the Loud Ideas podcast, Francesca Marano from SiteGround talks to Mind Doodle's CEO, Rich Hill, about the power of networking. Loud Ideas clean